PCB Heaven

General Category => Maths, Geometry, Physics and others => Topic started by: Alex on March 01, 2008, 11:58:50 AM

Title: Peltire TE
Post by: Alex on March 01, 2008, 11:58:50 AM
I was googling around and found this device. It is called Peltier device. This is a thin element that when you power it with dc, it transfers heat from it's one plate to it's other plate. So, one plate gets all the heat and the other plate goes to zero degrees! Some people used this for cooling their PC but because of this big temperature change they had big amounts of moisture and you know what moisture does to your computer.

This device is powerd with 12-15VDC and has power of 50 Watts and i saw some of 280 Watts. That means that must draw more than 15 Amps. I really do not know if someone can control it's efficiency and reduce the temp difference so it will be less moisture inside PC.

It looks like a very good way of cooling pc!
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: kam on March 01, 2008, 14:29:25 PM
My man!

Some months ago PCB Heaven was running on external servers. There i had some info about a project that i was preparing. This project i called it "Hybrid cooling system". I live in a rather hot country which gets up to 45deg. C during summertime. Thus, a cooling system with fans is either to inefficient or too loud for 24/7 that i run the pc in my bedroom. Also, water cooling is not a solution because the coldest cater will only be 45 degrees (the air is 45 degrees under shadow). And of course i hate air conditions.

I live by sea and thus the air has a lot of humidity. I design for this a system using peltier as a cooling device but the effect is not immidiate. It cools water that cools the CPU, GPU, HDD and also the case.
I will post it here also.
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: ScubaCap on March 01, 2008, 17:54:56 PM
AWESOME! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: kam on March 01, 2008, 19:59:22 PM
indeed  :) ;) :) ;) ;) :) ;)
 
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: Mosquito on March 01, 2008, 21:12:33 PM
And why bother with this peltier and not have an external radiator to cool water with 2 or even 4 fans?
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: manley_V on March 01, 2008, 21:27:02 PM
But i think kam has already tell that the air in his country goes up to 45. No matter how many big or small fans you put, the lowest temperature will be 45 degrees C that i really believe you will never have. I suppose you will have water temperature up to 50 (or more depending on your CPU). This you can achieve with only air cooling. Kam i suppose wants to have his cpu working lower than 50 degrees (and silently).
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: kam on March 01, 2008, 22:05:24 PM
But i think kam has already tell that the air in his country goes up to 45.

Yep. that's right. i did.

Sometimes here in Greece is very very hot and because Greece is all surrounded by sea, the humidity is a hell.
You can have some good results with plain air cooling but hell, the noise is hell. Even the 'silent' fans make noise.
But the water pumps used for aquarium are really really silent (especially a good one). So silent that you may not even hear it. That's why i came up to this idea.
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: Alex on March 01, 2008, 22:57:26 PM
Ok and now the hard question. How can you control this thing that uses 15 DCV and draws more than 15Amps? Is it possible?

I searched around the internet and i found some very funny applications. Also i can surely confirm that this device, due to the vast temperature difference (up to 64dec.C) it causes moisture condensation and finally water drops. Not very good for the CPU.

One man made a coffee pot with peltier to keep his coffee warm.
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: kam on March 01, 2008, 23:31:55 PM
Actually you can control it with a PWM. The only problem is the amperage that it draws.

But this is not nowadays a matter. For example, BD909...912 can easily manage 15Amps@100V. So everything can be controlled. Believe me.
After all, of you happen to know motor driver, they can control with these power transistors larger amounts of amperes.

So, PWM is the answer, BD909 is the switch.
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: Alex on March 01, 2008, 23:43:16 PM
Man i like you because you have all the answers!

Thanx!
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: manley_V on March 02, 2008, 02:30:28 AM
One man made a coffee pot with peltier to keep his coffee warm.

Now this peltier is for cooling or heating because i get alittle bit confused
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: kam on March 02, 2008, 02:43:53 AM
It is not either cooling or heating. It is a heat transfer device. It transfers the heat from one plate to another. So, one plate will be hot and the other cold. If you put the coffee on the hot, you get a warm cofee. If you change it, you get an ice cofee!  :P :P
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: ScubaCap on March 02, 2008, 16:18:45 PM
And i found some really nice peltier on Ebay on a very good price. Man i beginning to like this gadget!
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: kam on March 02, 2008, 22:58:20 PM
yes, they are not really expensive for what they do. But i do not know the reliability of those things
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: Alex on March 02, 2008, 23:11:06 PM
You tickled my curiosity. I will order one for test.
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: Mosquito on March 03, 2008, 00:49:04 AM
so is this the solution for all problems? and why not others have use this yet? There must be some kind of problem with these things. Maybe is uncontrollable or no possible to control at all. Or maybe not very efficient

Or maybe not for continous work...
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: ScubaCap on March 03, 2008, 01:09:40 AM
Or maybe too complicated to be so popular. Or maybe TOOOOOOOOO efficient that cpu needs not too much cold.
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: Alex on March 03, 2008, 12:00:30 PM
i will give it a shot. they are not so expensive.
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: kam on March 03, 2008, 12:23:21 PM
and let us know the results
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: Andre on March 03, 2008, 12:54:33 PM
I know that CPUs can work in higher temperatures w/o problems. My pentium is designed to work over 60. So 45 degrees would not be a problem after all. Or even 50. A simple water cooling i believe is sufficient enough.
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: kam on March 03, 2008, 14:00:30 PM
The idea is to have it working really hard day and night.

A hard working cpu will raise temperature far more thus water cooling may not be a very good way. And after all, a cool CPU works faster than a hot one. This is a fact. It works more reliable and with less error thus much much faster.
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: ScubaCap on March 04, 2008, 22:18:58 PM
Let's me realistic. 60 degrees difference is just too much for a computer to need.
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: manley_V on March 04, 2008, 23:52:47 PM
This power may as well give you the ability, with a good controller of course, to maintain almost unchanged and stable low temp, for example 35degrees, no matter if outside is hot like hell. I like this thing!
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: kam on March 05, 2008, 08:17:38 AM
My Man! That's the idea!  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: spic0m on March 11, 2008, 00:33:15 AM
While we are happy discovering the peltier's look what the peltiers evolving to.

http://www.nextreme.com/pages/products/etec.html

I think that this is the future.
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: Andre on March 11, 2008, 07:43:56 AM
The future is heat free chips.  :)
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: FelIX on March 13, 2008, 23:13:17 PM
The future is heat free chips.  :)

As long as they are discovered  :P
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: spic0m on March 14, 2008, 00:09:31 AM
lol, but for the time being that is the most we can get. It's enough for me :)
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: Mosquito on March 15, 2008, 00:20:12 AM
Sure, 60 degrees of difference should be enough for you! Where do you live? In the center of earth?
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: kam on March 16, 2008, 23:05:44 PM
you need not to have allways TE under full load with 67 degrees difference. You need this only to cool your tank at let's say 20 degrees and then use it only when it goes over 23. This, you have an almost stable heat on the CPU. You do not need to cool it with -20 degrees!  :o
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: spic0m on March 18, 2008, 22:15:29 PM
Yes but screw efficiency, i want arctic circle in my pc, 5-7 degs water temp!  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: Supernova on March 19, 2008, 08:17:03 AM
Jesus Christ!
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: Erkeli on March 20, 2008, 16:33:38 PM
Yes but screw efficiency, i want arctic circle in my pc, 5-7 degs water temp!  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

You can also use some liquid nitrogen. It will fit your needs. :-\
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: spic0m on March 20, 2008, 19:29:24 PM
For sure! The only prob is you must filling the tank constanlty and it's expensive and hard to find.  ;)
Title: Re: Peltire TE
Post by: kam on March 20, 2008, 20:31:13 PM
madness