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General Category => Maths, Geometry, Physics and others => Topic started by: Roccane on August 26, 2008, 16:26:41 PM

Title: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: Roccane on August 26, 2008, 16:26:41 PM
Congratulation for the level of your forum!

And here is my question.
I work as electrician and we build electric cabinets for automations. I am not the chief electrician but as far as automation is concerned, i do it fine.
I want to go a step more. I want to start working with temperature transmitters, indicators, PLCs and stuff. Can someone tell me a walkthrough or something that i could start learning? What should i buy to work with for example? A PLC? Transmitters an dindicators?

Any idea could be good  ;)
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: serafino on August 26, 2008, 22:16:13 PM
First of all wellcome.
I am working with all these that you describe to us.
You can start to study with all of these together   ;) ;) and of course  you can buy a small plc.
It's very important to have your work shop.
We can help you .
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: spic0m on August 26, 2008, 23:45:44 PM
Can you recomend something serafino, brands etc.?
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: kam on August 27, 2008, 01:41:09 AM
You can start to study with all of these together   ;) ;)

Come on man you own this subject ;)
Give him your lights. Not all together for a start.
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: Roccane on August 28, 2008, 02:43:16 AM
First of all wellcome.
I am working with all these that you describe to us.
You can start to study with all of these together   ;) ;) and of course  you can buy a small plc.
It's very important to have your work shop.
We can help you .

Serafino, if i start with everything, i will end with nothing.
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: serafino on August 30, 2008, 20:12:43 PM
ok, what is 4-20. You mean 4-20 mA i hope . This the classic electric anolog signal.
The transmitters have output 4-20 mA  (and not only).
What exactly you want to learn ? ( sorry but i don't know what you know about all these )
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: Roccane on August 30, 2008, 20:22:02 PM
ok, what is 4-20. You mean 4-20 mA i hope . This the classic electric anolog signal.
The transmitters have output 4-20 mA  (and not only).
What exactly you want to learn ? ( sorry but i don't know what you know about all these )

What exactly i want to learn? I do not know. That is the problem. The problem is that i do not know. And this  happens with people that try to learn and do not know. The do not know what to learn.

I want to know to make for example an alarm when temperature goes too high, that will sound a siren. Simple things but made with PLC. That's it

If you know then write a walkthrough or a tutorial or something. How would you make one? What would you use? What materials? And a program. Write a well commented program.
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: serafino on August 30, 2008, 20:56:07 PM
For high temp.  alarm.
you use one  temperature sensor  (for ex. pt-100 , range 0 -150 Celsium).
This sensor connected with transmitter which transmitter use input PT-100 and output 4-20mA.
So you have the signal signal and one choice is to use plc with analoge input .
So you connect the signal direct in one input of plc.After work with software and connect one horn in one output of plc .( i have photoes but i cannot find them  now , i must organised for help you)
The other easier choice is to connect the electric signal direct with one controller which has input 4-20mA and also digital output.
look this photo ( not so good ) one temp. controller.
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: serafino on August 31, 2008, 16:28:59 PM
look this example
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: serafino on August 31, 2008, 16:32:10 PM
Here i have one temperature sensor PT-100 type , one prerssure transmitter , and one controller .
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: serafino on August 31, 2008, 17:01:18 PM
sorry, here are the photos
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: Roccane on August 31, 2008, 18:34:55 PM
WOW serafino!!! Thanks

And in your drawing, why do you have 2 temperature sensors? One you name it "temperature transmitter" and other is name "PT100 temperature sensor".

Why you put 2? And what is this tank?
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: serafino on August 31, 2008, 19:10:19 PM
Tank is for example.
Temperature sensor is the sensor ( pt-100 is one type of temperature sensor ).
Output of this sensor is resistance ( Ohm ) and you connect with temperature transmitter and you have 4-20mA.
but there is also temperature transmitter which included inside temperature sensor and you have directly 4-20mA.
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: serafino on August 31, 2008, 19:12:48 PM
All these analog signals you can connect them with a plc and you can make all the control from it.
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: Roccane on September 02, 2008, 18:23:06 PM
Temperature sensor is the sensor ( pt-100 is one type of temperature sensor ).
Output of this sensor is resistance ( Ohm ) and you connect with temperature transmitter and you have 4-20mA.
but there is also temperature transmitter which included inside temperature sensor and you have directly 4-20mA.

Why do you use 2 temperature sensors? For security? If one fails?

All these analog signals you can connect them with a plc and you can make all the control from it.
Can you show me an example how? The program i mean. If for example you have to do this project, what would you make?
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: serafino on September 02, 2008, 18:37:01 PM
Do you know ladder language for plc or stl or gates or something else ? I know programming only with ladder or gates .
Have ever make a programm for plc? 
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: spic0m on September 02, 2008, 19:22:49 PM
A simple (and funny :)) paradigm of ladder programming is below

1. ------[ ]--------------------------------[ ]-------------------------------------( )
      President button                          General button                            Nuclear holocaust

President button AND General button = Nuclear holocaust



                     chocolate flavor         
2.----[ ]--------------------|--[ ]--|-----------------------------------( )
     cone                             |         |                                    ice cream cone
                                        |         |
                                        |--[ ]--|
                                       vanilla flavor   

cone AND (chocolate flavor OR vanilla flavor) = ice cream cone


This is what it looks like and some comparisons you can make with the inputs you have. Serafino who knows the subject better will explain more i think.

Also there is a free programmer and simulator you can find here: http://www.entertron.com/software.htm

Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: kammenos on September 03, 2008, 18:25:23 PM
Nice example spicom lol  :D
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: Roccane on September 06, 2008, 12:20:54 PM
Thanks spicom for example. I think i am getting to understand.

Serafino as i tell, i have never make plc program but i wish to learn.
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: serafino on September 06, 2008, 12:30:54 PM
So your first step is to buy one small PLC ( it costs about 100 euros ) .
After we can help you for your first steps and you must also study and you will see that it is not so difficult.
SO FIND A PLC ;)
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: serafino on September 07, 2008, 21:51:25 PM
Here you can download the demo software of aXL PLC - MITSUBISHI.http://www.mitsubishi-automation.com/products/microcontrollers.html (http://www.mitsubishi-automation.com/products/microcontrollers.html)
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: Roccane on September 08, 2008, 18:20:10 PM
Thenx people, thanx serafino.

I will seee what i can do
Title: Re: 4-20, 0-10, 0-100... What are all these?
Post by: serafino on September 08, 2008, 20:32:08 PM
Look this, it will help you.
http://www.datel.com/data/meters/dms-an20.pdf (http://www.datel.com/data/meters/dms-an20.pdf)