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Author Topic: USA instabus installation.  (Read 5295 times)

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J.G

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USA instabus installation.
« on: October 20, 2008, 18:52:42 PM »
I think that in USA for bus communication they use  power lines instead of a separate pair of cables (European style).This works mainly on the X-10 communication platform.A lot off these systems are developed in north America(X-10,CEBus,LonTalk,smart house). Why this isn't done in Europe.Is it a matter off marketing and companies or it just can not been done.Different voltage,frequency or something?
p.s the radio frequency system is out off the trick for me.I am an electrician I need to install cables to make money ;D.

spic0m

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Re: USA instabus installation.
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2008, 21:34:27 PM »
Carrier wave systems exist for many years (x-10 was released around 1975 i think) and was the first attempts of "bus" signaling. Early days was the only ones you could find but, after EIB appeared  ;) and monopolized the market. All those systems have also represantives in EU countries and their systems working fine with the different voltage and frequencies.

J.G

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Re: USA instabus installation.
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2008, 12:25:26 PM »
So you say it works.If you are right there is no need for wiring (I guess) to upgrade an old formal el.installation to a 'bus' one.
An other subject that came to me, is the difference between  bus line and  ethernet port.Since we can transfer data to a bus intallation using a pair of wires, why do we use four wires for a fast ethernet port line (the router to PC line). I hope you understand what I mean.

spic0m

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Re: USA instabus installation.
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2008, 21:29:51 PM »
An old electrical instalation will have much "noise" and sometimes may interfere with bus signlaling, among that, yes it will work. :)

Ethernet and bus are completely different, old (and slow) ethernet cards even used coaxial cable but as the demands for speed increased we are now at 8 cable twisted pair (RJ45) and moving forward to fibers.

kam

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Re: USA instabus installation.
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2008, 23:37:51 PM »
I should inform you that Instabus as you know it comes in 3 ops: Wireless, CWM and the normal one that you know. The first one, the wireless is yet not very popular and kinda.... unhealthy. The second one is as you described exactly the american bus. It uses carrier wave modulation and uses the normal power supply cables.

BUT

Dimmers, motors, fluoride light, high frequency devices and high drain devices causes a hell of a noise to your power lines. During my training we did some experiments (out of the paper). The delay and the error transfer of data (into really short distances like .... the laboratory) are disappointing. The bus was flooded with errors and this causes a great delay on response. It also causes failures. And all these with a cheap hair dryer.

That explains why you do not happen to know this option. S1emen$ itself has bury under a heavy load of mud this option. But it is not an american standard.

Now what our fellow americans do and can use this, is the quality of power lines and devices. if you use filters in each and every device as i described before, of if you never install or operate a device that already have these filters, and of course, IF THE POWER COMPANY of your country and the power distribution net are in good shape and not explode transformers daily spreading hot oil all over, then it will work perfectly.

You should also realize that the baud rate of instabus is 9600k and if you use power lines it will drop as low as 300 or less, depending the condition of the lines. This is 32 times slower, meaning that data will flow 32 times slower. An instabus can handle 64000 for every plan (but you may add more plans). Imagine what will happen if 20 people press a button within 2 seconds. In case you cannot imagine, i will tell you  ;)
The data (AKA Letter) for a simple "open sesame" is 32 bits long. The answer of the modules is 8 bits. If everything is perfect, then you have a total of 40 bits sent. Within 1 second you can only send (in perfect perfect and almost science fiction conditions) 300 bits... This means that in every second, you are able to send up to (approximately) 7 letters complete with response. 14 in 2 seconds. This means, that some people will... will have to click again...

I hope i solved some questions you may had about the system. If you need more detailed info about the letters and the responses, i can tell you.



J.G

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Re: USA instabus installation.
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2008, 10:15:48 AM »
It's ok for now.The question came because there were some guys (profecionals) claiming that they could carry an ethernet port from a router to a TV throught power line (different floor) ??? Anyway now they aimed the wireless solution :D.
p.s. I 'd like to learn info about transfering data in gen (not only eib applications) but now I'm stealing time from work.I'll post soon as I've got something to deal with.

J.G

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Re: USA instabus installation.
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2008, 10:27:53 AM »
This is for cat6 or more (4 twisted pairs) local networks.As it matters speed such us 100mbps and less, two pairs are ok using the 1-2,3-6 contacts of the ethernet socket.No fiber is nessesary when the provided telephone line is slow.Let them bring me a fast connection and upgrating my house's network is the easy part.

J.G

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Re: USA instabus installation.
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2008, 10:30:09 AM »
The previous post was for spicom's reply. I made a mistake.

spic0m

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Re: USA instabus installation.
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2008, 18:57:13 PM »
Your local network can be up to 1gigabit indipendent of the isp's speed, if you want to have a media pc and storage for downloads in the same pc then 100mbs would not be enough.

kam

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Re: USA instabus installation.
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2008, 21:59:04 PM »
p.s. I 'd like to learn info about transfering data in gen (not only eib applications) but now I'm stealing time from work.I'll post soon as I've got something to deal with.

There are some thousands of different communication protocols according to the application demanding...